the problem of Battle Cry, continued
First of all, I'd like to acknowledge the obvious reason I'm making this post, which is to respond to Mr. Q's comment. Also, let me also say that I once again not in complete opposition to what he said. In fact, I have to say that his opening comments about the "emotional" focus of Battle Cry are hitting the nail on the head. In fact, it's so full of pure truth and goodness that I'm going to paste it below so everyone who hasn't read it can read it and bask in his insight.
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"I also have a problem with Battle Cry and other similar organizations and meetigns for several reasons. Unlike you, the reasons are NOT because residends are not happy with them. Men love darkness rather than light, and want nothing to do with the light. Here's some of my complaints about Battle Cry:
(1) They build too much upon human emotions.
(2) They try to market the Gospel like a business or product.
(3) They focus on the changing of one's life or on music rather than the Gospel
They accomplish a lot of good, because the Gospel is preached -- it will not come up void! However, I think many try to accomplish too much through the means and activities of men. However, I don't believe they think they are going to issue in some "New Jerusalem," but merely want to help expose people to the Gospel and give them an opportunity to hear about teachings they may not know or may have forgotten.
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AMEN!! PREACH IT!!! HALLELLUJAH!!! I'm elated and overbrimming with joy by the sheer wit and tact with which you crafted those sentences. I was actually thinking the exact same thing, but feared that my argument would be discounted because of the fact that I didn't actually attend. But from reading the book and watching the demo video in Chapel, I noticed that both were completely devoid of the Gospel. A-Men.
Alas, sadly, this is where our agreement ends.
The story of Sodom and Gomorrah is a descriptive tale of what happened to those two cities. It's not prescriptive. It's not saying, "every evil city that has no righteous people living in it will be consumed in burning sulfur." How do I know that's not the case? Because if so, our planet would have been sucked into the sun and human life would have been destroyed altogether. The book of Romans tells us that all of us are unrighteous, and unworthy before God (Romans 3). Is it really the city of San Francisco that is vile and corrupted, or the people living in it? And if it is the people living in it, what makes them any more vile and evil than those living elsewhere? Jesus came to save us from Sin, that is, Sin with a capital "S". Sin is the undercurrent of our lives, and the dreadful disease that is woven into our hearts from birth. We are born with Sin. Therefore, it's not the amount of "sins" committed that makes someone more or less evil; it's the amount of "Sin" itself. By this reasoning, we as Christians can justify the equal need of every human being (including Christians) for God's Grace, and no hope outside of it. We are all born with the same Sin. We are all Sinful. All desperately and constantly in need of God's Grace.
Is San Francisco the modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah? I am the modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah. The evil city is not out there, but in me. That's the foundational concept of the Gospel. As Christians we must never forget that. What happens when we do? You get so-called "Christians" saying things like, "The reason New Orleans was so devasted by the hurricanes is because they sinned against God." Oh yeah, that makes sense. So why am I not being forced into a gas chamber? Why isn't the U.S.A. being blown off the face of the earth by nuclear weapons? Why hasn't the sun's gravitational pull been altered so slightly as to knock our entire solar system off balance and cause all human life to deteriorate within days?
Because there's Grace.
To be more detailed, I'll go even further. We, as humans, shake our fists at God on a daily basis. We hate judgement. We run away from it. We seek to hide our Sin with our own empty righteousness. We want to run from God and his law. We daily rebel against his laws and hate them. That hatred and fear manifests itself in different ways, but it's there. So when you say that San Francisco is full of people who hate God and are running from him, I would agree 100%. Of course, I would disagree if you said that to imply that their degree of rebellion is higher than most other cities. That's poppycock and rubbish (I've been watching a bit too much BBC America).
What makes a Christian special, you ask? A Christian has hope. A Christian has Grace. A Chrisitan isn't perfect, nor is he fully rid of Sin. Instead, his Sin no longer dominates his life. He has an undercurrent of love rather than hatred, an undercurrent of benevolence rather than malefaction. And it is not something we give ourselves, or receive as some kind of reward for "being Good and doing what God says"; it is rather a precious, gracious gift from God. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean I'm a better person. It means that I have been saved by Grace, and that my hope has shifted from what my Sinful desires offer to what God offers.
I would further disagree when you say that most of San Francisco doesn't believe in a God. On the contrary, the whole of San Francisco, the whole world in fact, believes in a God, whether it be himself, nature, another human, or a higher, transcendent being altogether. We all have a God in our lives. Belief in a God is not the issue. It's the right God, and the Gospel of Grace which must be proven.
May God continue to use me, a vessel of Sin, to share his light with the world around me. For I am not the light, but God is the light, and I am a messenger to point people to it, so that they too can lift up their eyes and see it.
----------------
"I also have a problem with Battle Cry and other similar organizations and meetigns for several reasons. Unlike you, the reasons are NOT because residends are not happy with them. Men love darkness rather than light, and want nothing to do with the light. Here's some of my complaints about Battle Cry:
(1) They build too much upon human emotions.
(2) They try to market the Gospel like a business or product.
(3) They focus on the changing of one's life or on music rather than the Gospel
They accomplish a lot of good, because the Gospel is preached -- it will not come up void! However, I think many try to accomplish too much through the means and activities of men. However, I don't believe they think they are going to issue in some "New Jerusalem," but merely want to help expose people to the Gospel and give them an opportunity to hear about teachings they may not know or may have forgotten.
----------------
AMEN!! PREACH IT!!! HALLELLUJAH!!! I'm elated and overbrimming with joy by the sheer wit and tact with which you crafted those sentences. I was actually thinking the exact same thing, but feared that my argument would be discounted because of the fact that I didn't actually attend. But from reading the book and watching the demo video in Chapel, I noticed that both were completely devoid of the Gospel. A-Men.
Alas, sadly, this is where our agreement ends.
The story of Sodom and Gomorrah is a descriptive tale of what happened to those two cities. It's not prescriptive. It's not saying, "every evil city that has no righteous people living in it will be consumed in burning sulfur." How do I know that's not the case? Because if so, our planet would have been sucked into the sun and human life would have been destroyed altogether. The book of Romans tells us that all of us are unrighteous, and unworthy before God (Romans 3). Is it really the city of San Francisco that is vile and corrupted, or the people living in it? And if it is the people living in it, what makes them any more vile and evil than those living elsewhere? Jesus came to save us from Sin, that is, Sin with a capital "S". Sin is the undercurrent of our lives, and the dreadful disease that is woven into our hearts from birth. We are born with Sin. Therefore, it's not the amount of "sins" committed that makes someone more or less evil; it's the amount of "Sin" itself. By this reasoning, we as Christians can justify the equal need of every human being (including Christians) for God's Grace, and no hope outside of it. We are all born with the same Sin. We are all Sinful. All desperately and constantly in need of God's Grace.
Is San Francisco the modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah? I am the modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah. The evil city is not out there, but in me. That's the foundational concept of the Gospel. As Christians we must never forget that. What happens when we do? You get so-called "Christians" saying things like, "The reason New Orleans was so devasted by the hurricanes is because they sinned against God." Oh yeah, that makes sense. So why am I not being forced into a gas chamber? Why isn't the U.S.A. being blown off the face of the earth by nuclear weapons? Why hasn't the sun's gravitational pull been altered so slightly as to knock our entire solar system off balance and cause all human life to deteriorate within days?
Because there's Grace.
To be more detailed, I'll go even further. We, as humans, shake our fists at God on a daily basis. We hate judgement. We run away from it. We seek to hide our Sin with our own empty righteousness. We want to run from God and his law. We daily rebel against his laws and hate them. That hatred and fear manifests itself in different ways, but it's there. So when you say that San Francisco is full of people who hate God and are running from him, I would agree 100%. Of course, I would disagree if you said that to imply that their degree of rebellion is higher than most other cities. That's poppycock and rubbish (I've been watching a bit too much BBC America).
What makes a Christian special, you ask? A Christian has hope. A Christian has Grace. A Chrisitan isn't perfect, nor is he fully rid of Sin. Instead, his Sin no longer dominates his life. He has an undercurrent of love rather than hatred, an undercurrent of benevolence rather than malefaction. And it is not something we give ourselves, or receive as some kind of reward for "being Good and doing what God says"; it is rather a precious, gracious gift from God. Just because I am a Christian doesn't mean I'm a better person. It means that I have been saved by Grace, and that my hope has shifted from what my Sinful desires offer to what God offers.
I would further disagree when you say that most of San Francisco doesn't believe in a God. On the contrary, the whole of San Francisco, the whole world in fact, believes in a God, whether it be himself, nature, another human, or a higher, transcendent being altogether. We all have a God in our lives. Belief in a God is not the issue. It's the right God, and the Gospel of Grace which must be proven.
May God continue to use me, a vessel of Sin, to share his light with the world around me. For I am not the light, but God is the light, and I am a messenger to point people to it, so that they too can lift up their eyes and see it.
posted by John Mark at 1:01 PM
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