what is a will...
Well, I'm coming out of my shell here to probe back into some theological discussion. Lately the idea of a "will" has been brought up a lot (almost excessively, especially in Bible class, though Pastor Burch did mention it in his message on Wednesday). Actually, whenever Mr. Gross subs on Mondays we end up talking about the idea of will. Or rather, Mr. Gross shares with us his understanding of things. It's interesting to hear him speak. He knows and agrees with one side of the argument very very well.
He once told us that there are many times mentioned in the Bible where God changes his mind. Where does it say that? Where, in the Scriptures, does it say that God changed his original plan? Rather, we see passages (like in Jonah) where God says (through his reluctant prophet--but that's a different story), "Forty more days days and Nineveh will be overturned." This, of course, is a conditional statement. We know that because (A) the context indicates it and (B) it matches up with other similar instances throughout the Old Testament. What do I mean by a conditional statement? Basically, if the people were to repent and humble themselves before God, they would not be overturned and God would spare them. Why else would God send a prophet all the way to Nineveh? Just to notify them of their impending doom? Or was it also to give them a chance to repent? From what happens next, we see clearly that God sent Jonah in order to bring the Ninevites to repentance. Did God change his mind? Certainly not. He took a course of action based on what the human response would be (which, of course, he knew would happen and planned for). There are many scriptures referring to God as "unchanging." Perhaps just one example that speaks most clearly on this is I Samuel 15:29[click link to see in context], where Samuel is rebuking Saul and declaring God's decision to remove him from the throne. He says, "He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind." This verse describes two things: the unchanging nature of God and the pliability of man. They are distinguished clearly, as two separate things. The reason God does not spare Saul's position is because Saul has already had many chances to repent of his sinful ways, but has never done so. Therefore, the consequence of Saul's action is rejection from the throne of Israel. The New Testament also has many references to God's sovereignty, but all of those scriptures are listed on a previous post that I wrote last year.
Based on this information, I would make the case that God does not change his mind (though he might appear to); rather, he is an omniscient God who knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen, and being at the same time an omnipotent God, has planned it accordingly. Imagine if God had "changed his mind" about earth? He had more than enough reason to do so. But he planned for something else to happen, and that is what I praise him daily for.
Perhaps someone can break down my argument with something I haven't thought about. If so, please do not hesitate. I'm not trying to "win" anything here, I'm just trying to seek the truth. I hope I'm blessing you rather than causinig you a burden, whoever might be reading this. At all costs, I'm trying to maintain an attitude of love and desire to advance God's kingdom in whatever way I can, rather than one of selfish ambition. Please let me know if you feel that's not the case (unless you're Matt or Chris, who will of course take that sentence out of context and relentlessly notify me of my shortcomings;). May God daily manifest the wonder of his gospel of Grace to all of you.
He once told us that there are many times mentioned in the Bible where God changes his mind. Where does it say that? Where, in the Scriptures, does it say that God changed his original plan? Rather, we see passages (like in Jonah) where God says (through his reluctant prophet--but that's a different story), "Forty more days days and Nineveh will be overturned." This, of course, is a conditional statement. We know that because (A) the context indicates it and (B) it matches up with other similar instances throughout the Old Testament. What do I mean by a conditional statement? Basically, if the people were to repent and humble themselves before God, they would not be overturned and God would spare them. Why else would God send a prophet all the way to Nineveh? Just to notify them of their impending doom? Or was it also to give them a chance to repent? From what happens next, we see clearly that God sent Jonah in order to bring the Ninevites to repentance. Did God change his mind? Certainly not. He took a course of action based on what the human response would be (which, of course, he knew would happen and planned for). There are many scriptures referring to God as "unchanging." Perhaps just one example that speaks most clearly on this is I Samuel 15:29[click link to see in context], where Samuel is rebuking Saul and declaring God's decision to remove him from the throne. He says, "He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind." This verse describes two things: the unchanging nature of God and the pliability of man. They are distinguished clearly, as two separate things. The reason God does not spare Saul's position is because Saul has already had many chances to repent of his sinful ways, but has never done so. Therefore, the consequence of Saul's action is rejection from the throne of Israel. The New Testament also has many references to God's sovereignty, but all of those scriptures are listed on a previous post that I wrote last year.
Based on this information, I would make the case that God does not change his mind (though he might appear to); rather, he is an omniscient God who knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen, and being at the same time an omnipotent God, has planned it accordingly. Imagine if God had "changed his mind" about earth? He had more than enough reason to do so. But he planned for something else to happen, and that is what I praise him daily for.
Perhaps someone can break down my argument with something I haven't thought about. If so, please do not hesitate. I'm not trying to "win" anything here, I'm just trying to seek the truth. I hope I'm blessing you rather than causinig you a burden, whoever might be reading this. At all costs, I'm trying to maintain an attitude of love and desire to advance God's kingdom in whatever way I can, rather than one of selfish ambition. Please let me know if you feel that's not the case (unless you're Matt or Chris, who will of course take that sentence out of context and relentlessly notify me of my shortcomings;). May God daily manifest the wonder of his gospel of Grace to all of you.
posted by John Mark at 4:54 PM
1 Comments:
This may be the longest comment I've ever written.
The only part of your argument I'll have to dismiss is your statements: "Imagine that God..." Like I have said many times before, I won't try to fit God into my puny brain. Just because I can't imagine something about God does not mean it is (or is not) so.
Most evangelical Christians today usually only use the word to mean that part of a Christian's life whereby he or she is doing what God wants them to do. That is merely a small facet of the word. I think the biggest "controversy" around the whole WILL OF GOD is using "Will" to mean both desire and declaration. I'm not sure if the same words are used in the original language, but in English, the context is different, even though the same word is used. For example: God is not willing (does not desire) than any should perish. However, God's will (His declaration) does include the fact that the unsaved will perish.
There are other examples also where God does wants people to repent, but gives men over to their sins. Was it against the will of God that men go to hell? Well, it is against the desire of God, who is loving and compassionate. But it is not against the law of God, who is faithful and just.
From what I have studied, in his free will, man may choose to do what is against the desires of God (don't ask me how this happens... I don't know). In fact, we often see man doing things that displease God. However, man, no matter how hard he tries, can do anything against the declaration of God.
God does, however, allow things to happen which displeases Him. Even though God is omnipotent, He allowed the fall in the garden. Despite His hatred towards sin, He allows terrible sins in the world every day which He could stop from happening.
I think most of the instances that Mr. Gross must be referring to were conditional statements. "If you don't change your ways, you will be destroyed." I did some reading and found a few instances where it does seem like God may have changed his mind. In Numbers 14:11-20 God wanted to destroy the Israelites, but Moses persuaded God to spare them... but only for the sake of Moses. Jonah 3:1-10 states that God did, indeed, intend on bringing judgement on the people of Ninevah (the Hebrew word for "repent" or changing one's mind is used here). Ezekiel 18: 21-23 states that if a sinner turns from his wicked ways, he will not perish. Even in Genesis 6:6 it states that God was grieved (or regreted) that He made the earth because of the sin within it.
I found one author who even stated that "in the Bible, it is clear that God’s promises and warnings are always conditional on man’s response: this is most clearly set out in Ezekiel 33:13-16. We are not to think of Moses as altering God’s purpose towards Israel by his prayer, but as carrying it out: Moses was never more like God than in such moments, for he shared God’s mind and loving purpose” (Tyndale OT Commentary).
**What all this boils down to, is an examination of the grammar and context. The word that is translated “repent” or “repented” simply means “to be sorry for” and does not indicate a change, but simply a state of regret [because it made God unhappy]. Further, none of these passages shows that a change in the character of God occurred, or that God did something contrary to His character.”** (J.I. Packer)
YES -- I KNOW THAT I DID NOT EXACTLY ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
All I can say is, the will of God is bigger than I can fully comprehend. God's law and declarations will never change, because He said they will never change. Although I could never imagine why (my puny brain, again), God sometimes gives man the ability to choose to do something that does not please Him. I know people want a clear answer about free will, predestination, etc.; but I don't think there is a simple, clear answer.
***** ***** ***** ***** *****
What really comes to my mind is, "why is this such a big issue to some people?" God is omnipotent, omniscient, and immutable. However, God is much more complex that we can understand, and his ways are higher than our ways... and his thoughts greater than our thoughts. The main concern for Christians should be to follow the clear teachings in the Bible (that is, the commands doctrines and the clear applications of those commands and doctrines). If we know we are saved, and are following His commands as His Word instructs, than we should know we are in His will. If a person is unsaved and on their way to hell; that person is in God's "will" as well.
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